In this episode the hosts talk about ITS (Individuals Tending Towards Savagery), a nihilist anticiv or “ecoextremist” terrorist group in Mexico. The recent stabbings by a white supremacist of three people in Portland hangs over the episode as it was recorded in the early hours the day after. The hosts discuss ITS’ emergence from green anarchism, its deep divergences from anarchism, as well as what forces led to it and currently defend and propagandize for ITS. Are ITS’ communiques secretly attempts to persuade others or just performances to strengthen the psychology and narratives they’ve grown trapped in? How can the isolation of insurrectionary struggle can cause people to diverge from the movements they started out with? We discuss the motte and bailey and other fallacies beloved of ITS apologists. Meanwhile Sean occasionally pounds on a typewriter in the background from his cabin in the wilderness ruining the audio in an indiscriminant strike against technosociety.